Rising (3+)
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Great post.
I think I agree with everything you just said except Adam West being a bad Batman. He's a different Batman and a different Bruce Wayne and faithful to that age of comic books the same way Bale's portrayal is faithful to the comic books.
Personally, Keaton is the best for me given you just cannot see him as Batman at all. He's not the perfect Bruce Wayne, that's left for Mr American Psycho, but he is the Batman.
I think I agree with everything you just said except Adam West being a bad Batman. He's a different Batman and a different Bruce Wayne and faithful to that age of comic books the same way Bale's portrayal is faithful to the comic books.
Personally, Keaton is the best for me given you just cannot see him as Batman at all. He's not the perfect Bruce Wayne, that's left for Mr American Psycho, but he is the Batman.
Like I was saying before the tv show was inspired largely by the columbia pictures serials Batman. Adam took the character and blended them in to his own original take. In the terms of this, I was trying to compare the film, which was largely awful all around. He was fine in what he was doing, but he wasn't exactly faithful. The comic was actually reworked around adam west.
It was actually changed a year before the show took off after slumping sales and then retooled again after the show took off.
It was actually changed a year before the show took off after slumping sales and then retooled again after the show took off.
True dat, Andrew.
Tim Burton cast Michael Keaton as Batman, even though he was met with hesitant reactions from the studio heads. This is because of Keaton's former role in another Tim Burton movie you may have heard of, Beetlejuice. The studio heads were concerned that he would be too much of a wild card for the character, but Keaton nailed it.
My thoughts are that Christian Bale is Nolan's Batman, through and through. He's the strong male presence that he needs to be and as such is devoid of much personality. It's no wonder Ledger's Joker completely overpowered him in The Dark Knight. His character just lacks any sort of range. He has a moral outlook and an objective, but nothing beyond that really connects him to the audience.
Tim Burton cast Michael Keaton as Batman, even though he was met with hesitant reactions from the studio heads. This is because of Keaton's former role in another Tim Burton movie you may have heard of, Beetlejuice. The studio heads were concerned that he would be too much of a wild card for the character, but Keaton nailed it.
My thoughts are that Christian Bale is Nolan's Batman, through and through. He's the strong male presence that he needs to be and as such is devoid of much personality. It's no wonder Ledger's Joker completely overpowered him in The Dark Knight. His character just lacks any sort of range. He has a moral outlook and an objective, but nothing beyond that really connects him to the audience.
@Jamie
yeah, but we're going on 3 films now and if he can't make a real Batman come to life, I'll be disappointed. Especially since I like Nolan as a director and planner.
I'd hate to have any of the great actors in the film dominate Batman again. When Bruce Wayne is in a scene, he leads the scene. When Batman's in the scene, Ledger, Murphy, and Neeson steal every single moment. I don't think Batman should overpower the villain, but I shouldn't always be replaying scenes for the great lines performed by those 3 actors. Batman should have some of it.
Might as well replace Batman with a ninja in this regard and you should get the same effects. This could almost be his coming out party. Begins was his birth. Dark Knight was his awkward puberty. Rises should be Batman as Batman.
Either way, it'll be interesting to watch.
As for Michael Keaton, loved his Batman. Especially to come off of Beetlejuice with that performance. He did get overshadowed by Nicholson clearly, because Nicholson IS the Joker, but he stood on his own as a great example of 1980s gritty Batman.
yeah, but we're going on 3 films now and if he can't make a real Batman come to life, I'll be disappointed. Especially since I like Nolan as a director and planner.
I'd hate to have any of the great actors in the film dominate Batman again. When Bruce Wayne is in a scene, he leads the scene. When Batman's in the scene, Ledger, Murphy, and Neeson steal every single moment. I don't think Batman should overpower the villain, but I shouldn't always be replaying scenes for the great lines performed by those 3 actors. Batman should have some of it.
Might as well replace Batman with a ninja in this regard and you should get the same effects. This could almost be his coming out party. Begins was his birth. Dark Knight was his awkward puberty. Rises should be Batman as Batman.
Either way, it'll be interesting to watch.
As for Michael Keaton, loved his Batman. Especially to come off of Beetlejuice with that performance. He did get overshadowed by Nicholson clearly, because Nicholson IS the Joker, but he stood on his own as a great example of 1980s gritty Batman.
I agree that the Animated Series Wayne was the best, but draw on that more than anything in my expectations. As a result, I've never understood the argument that Bale was a great Bruce but a bad Batman. He's just a worse Batman, while being too emaciated both physically and emotionally outside the suit.
Keaton may not've been a charmer but he was more properly introspective, inquisitive, and kind of an addict to the element of edge. Without looking at the character in BlackSwan/WhiteSwan terms, an attitude I've never understood having never read the comics, I can only note that Clooney didn't have those things.
Keaton may not've been a charmer but he was more properly introspective, inquisitive, and kind of an addict to the element of edge. Without looking at the character in BlackSwan/WhiteSwan terms, an attitude I've never understood having never read the comics, I can only note that Clooney didn't have those things.
I like the gruffy voice thing. I think Bale nailed it. Being in a movie littered with amazing talent may have overshadowed his Batman, but its still there, and its the best.
One of my favorite moments in the Bale movies is when he does the batman voice to the blindfolded sharpshooters. He put on the Batman persona without putting on the suit. We, the audience understand what he's doing because of the gruffy voice. Great scene.
One of my favorite moments in the Bale movies is when he does the batman voice to the blindfolded sharpshooters. He put on the Batman persona without putting on the suit. We, the audience understand what he's doing because of the gruffy voice. Great scene.
@Glenn
I tried to point out that Kevin Conroy, Paul Dini and company created a unique Bruce Wayne that was more charitable than normal comic book iterations. He was a nicer all around guy. The comics have generally portrayed him as a playboy that takes what he wants and dwells on his dark side when he's alone. That's why Christian Bale plays the role adequately, particularly in the infamous ballet scene he had in Dark Knight.
Clooney had the charm of Bruce's Playboy appearance. Unfortunately that was all that movie had going right for it.
@Kyle
The scene with Batman talking to Rachel in the first movie was particularly bad as well as his conversation at the end with the Joker in DK. I'll also disagree that his Batman is the best. Keaton had a really good Batman that stood toe to toe with Jack Nickolson's fantastic portrayal of the Joker. Keaton just had a terrible Bruce Wayne, which I attribute mostly to Tim Burton's directing. Kevin Conroy's Batman was definitive, but most people don't count the animated features.
His choreography and manipulation of the suit is better mostly because of direction and technology (Keaton couldn't even move his head). If we are talking his portrayal of Batman alone, Bale's Batman is unfortunately weak. It can be better with simple voice manipulation and a bit of editing, however the presentation just isn't quite there.
I'm hopeful that he knocks Dark Knight Rises out of the park, but I'm going to see that movie more for Nolan and Levitt than Bale.
I tried to point out that Kevin Conroy, Paul Dini and company created a unique Bruce Wayne that was more charitable than normal comic book iterations. He was a nicer all around guy. The comics have generally portrayed him as a playboy that takes what he wants and dwells on his dark side when he's alone. That's why Christian Bale plays the role adequately, particularly in the infamous ballet scene he had in Dark Knight.
Clooney had the charm of Bruce's Playboy appearance. Unfortunately that was all that movie had going right for it.
@Kyle
The scene with Batman talking to Rachel in the first movie was particularly bad as well as his conversation at the end with the Joker in DK. I'll also disagree that his Batman is the best. Keaton had a really good Batman that stood toe to toe with Jack Nickolson's fantastic portrayal of the Joker. Keaton just had a terrible Bruce Wayne, which I attribute mostly to Tim Burton's directing. Kevin Conroy's Batman was definitive, but most people don't count the animated features.
His choreography and manipulation of the suit is better mostly because of direction and technology (Keaton couldn't even move his head). If we are talking his portrayal of Batman alone, Bale's Batman is unfortunately weak. It can be better with simple voice manipulation and a bit of editing, however the presentation just isn't quite there.
I'm hopeful that he knocks Dark Knight Rises out of the park, but I'm going to see that movie more for Nolan and Levitt than Bale.
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